Searching for a unicorn: How to do enjoyable, full-time leadership roles into your 60s…and beyond
The origins of this interview series.
“Lucia, you don’t know any professionals in their mid-60s, who are employed full-time and enjoy their work?!” a former client asked in our annual catch-up.
Damn it, I didn’t.
Not even one!
This knowledge gap smacked me in the face.
After a long stint in big business, Cathal (not his real name) had discovered his Superpowers. A subsequently been attracted to a smaller business “where his grey hairs were appreciated”. It had then been smashed to pieces by the pandemic, so he’d accepted an invitation to return to a former employer.
We chatted through his thoughts on his future career design.
One of the options we discussed was staying for another decade in full-time employment, enjoying the big company benefits, while accepting the occasional bout of misery that comes with big company politics and processes.
I was confident, even adamant, that he could NOT be employed full-time to the age of 65. And encouraged him strongly to factor in a much earlier exit to his financials.
But wait…my research instincts kicked in.
Why did I not know anyone who is employed full-time at 65 and enjoying it?
Had I become too obsessed with my thinking around 50-year-old corporate toast that I’d closed my mind to the possibility?
Seeking out professionals employed in full-time leadership positions in their 60s, who were also enjoying their work, initially felt like I was searching for a unicorn.
Tumbleweed and unicorns.
I went to LinkedIn to see if my network, or my network’s network, knew of such an individual.
Cue…tumbleweed.
Had I begun a search for a unicorn?
From my poll, I knew that half of my network knew a few, but no-one was stepping forward. After an eternity, my network found me a unicorn called Chris. Gradually, a few more stepped forward.
After this poll…
I knew they existed.
My generation, Generation X, will be working for longer than any generation before us. I strongly believe we need to do work that is satisfying and enjoyable.
So I felt it necessary that I track down these unicorns and interview them to see how they managed it and what we can all learn.
I’ve summarised my notes on each of the interviews and will continue doing so until I can see the common patterns. Until then…have a look at what each said.
66-year-old Chris works full-time for one of the largest companies in the world. Here are the patterns he felt contributed to his career longevity.
The Patterns behind Chris’s career longevity.
Constantly learning new stuff.
Over the years, Chris kept himself stimulated by continuously moving between industries, roles and countries. He also did this by saying “yes” to a company sponsored Masters, curiously walking into situations he didn’t know or understand.
Connecting the dots between your past and future - for self and others.
Chris moved between completely new industries several times during his career. This included hospitality, police services, banking and other business in change.
To secure such positions, he was able to relate stories and experiences. This connected the dots, allowing others to see how he could use his past experience to overcome problems he would face in his new, vastly different roles.
Engaging regularly with your network.
Networking has a bad reputation Despite identifying himself as an introvert, this was not true of Chris.
Chris has an astounding ability to connect. He keeps in contact with former colleagues and friends, and this has played a vital role in his career longevity.
“I’ve loved almost all of the organisations I’ve worked for, and with. I’ve met magnificent, fascinating people along the way. And kept in contact.”
Networking with generosity and curiosity.
The way in which Chris interacts with his network also appears to be key.
“I simply ask people in organisations why and how they do what they do. When asked, I help others understand how we do what we do in our organisation.”
Perceiving work as a game.
When Chris talks about work, I sense a very light approach.
He’s had various high stress positions and working environments. As a leader he’s often the ne reminding his team that, whilst work is important, it rarely involves life and death situations. This was greatly appreciated throughout his career.
Volunteering for organisations you love.
Throughout his career Chris found a little time to volunteer for organisations he has loved. This kept him connected with people who have the same interests and passions.
Mentoring, and being mentored.
Chris’ generosity throughout his career was evident. He gave his time and energy to others in ways he himself also found satisfying.
“I believe it’s important to give. I’ve always had mentors, and have always mentored. I’ve been mentoring some individuals for decades. I enjoy offering guidance and advice.”
Always looking forward.
This point was delivered very powerfully by Chris. He finds it continues to be a differentiator.
“Don’t be one of those people who always looks back and says “When we…” and constantly reminisces about the past. I find it keeps people stuck in the past.”
Viewing redundancy as something with the potential to be positive.
We all know that redundancy is commonplace in changing businesses. Chris made himself redundant in a previous role, after helping redesign the business. The package offered was very generous, but it wasn’t the end of the road.
Relying on your own little black book.
Chris concluded that meeting with top industry head-hunters was not as helpful as he once imagined…especially if your career is not standard. They each advised him that his own network was the most powerful route to a new route. And it was.
But contacting everyone you’ve ever worked with is not going to work.
“Your personal little black book of individuals you’ve enjoyed working with in the past is incredibly valuable.”
Be flexible about HOW you get paid.
Chris advises against becoming fixated on how you get paid. Things that are out of your control, often change.
“I worked two days a week full-time in my current organisation, primarily because of the IR35 ruling. But I have since carved a role for myself that is very valuable for the business, and very satisfying and rewarding for me full-time.”
Becoming known for something valuable to others.
“Become known for creating, building and making change happen. This way your package of skills, experience and knowledge can become in useful in the future. Every organisation experiences constant change.”
Cathy continues to work full-time. She has enjoyed several different career paths in various industries. Here she releases her insights on the patterns underpinning her career longevity.
The patterns behind Cathy’s career longevity.
Cathy is in her 60s, works full-time and loves her work. She has enjoyed several very different career paths, specialising most recently in public sector leadership roles. I was delighted when she agreed to speak with me about the patterns underpinning her career longevity.
Listening to your personal, inner drive.
Cathy felt that understanding your unique inner drive is key to building a sustainable career in your 60s.
“A great deal of career longevity is about your personal drive. Mine is to grow, learn and continue to be stimulated by my work. I would be bored at home.”
Loving your job and striving to be very good at it.
Cathy has no doubt that striving for mastery has been critical to her career longevity.
“You have to love your job to keep working in your 60s…and you have to be good at it. I’m always striving to be better. Even though others might say I’m at the top of my game, I never feel it. I always want to learn more and experience more even though I know my subject very well.”
Moving sideways and diagonally, not always upwards, to make the future better.
We are often lured into thinking that the only good career moves are upward moves. Cathy has a different opinion.
“I’ve moved around a great deal and changed career paths multiple times. I accepted roles that were sometimes sideways moves, sometimes diagonal moves. Sometimes it took me into different areas. I could gauge what I was missing or see links that would help me understand more and make me better in the future. Sometimes the linear, exclusively upward path, isn’t the right path.”
Enjoying the lifestyle that working affords you.
“We live in a nice house, in a nice area, go on nice holidays, have a new car every two years and buy what we want, when we want it. While I definitely enjoy that lifestyle, money has never been my driver. I have an inner driver to learn, grow and get better at my work.”
Reducing stress - two angles.
Cathy’s insights here demonstrate how individually we all view stress depending on our talents, skillset, motivators and experiences.
“In middle management and specialist roles, you get bombarded with stress from above and below. In a more junior role, your stress comes from above, but you’re not expected to work beyond 9-5, you get a lunch break and do work within your ability. At a senior level, of course, there is stress in being a director. Providing you’re good at what you do, it’s manageable because you’re effectively near the top of the line.”
Working smarter to maintain energy levels.
We need to work smart at any age. As we grow older, we need to choose not just where we invest our energy, but also how we invest it.
“I still work mentally as hard as I used to - I also work smarter. My role has changed, so I don’t need to put in as much physical labour as I used to. That makes it less tiring.”
Feeling appreciated.
Cathy’s take on feeling appreciated suggests that feeling appreciated feels very much within her control.
“You MUST be good at what you do to be appreciated. You’ve got to know your subject very well. You’ve got to be constantly driving to improve and grow. It’s a lovely feeling to be appreciated for your work. Personally… it urges me to give more.”
Choosing to invest your energy in industry or company cultures that suit you.
So often, exits occur when the culture fit is not right, or it changes suddenly. Despite having several careers in different industries, Cathy refers to her most recent specialism within one sector.
“I’ve worked for organisations within dynamic parts of the public sector, (including education) throughout my career. I have had the pleasure of working with lovely colleagues, in safe working environments where they generally look after you. There are still plenty of company politics to deal with, but the procedures are fair with no dirty tactics.”
Peter, who is in his seventies and still enjoying full-time employment, shares his secrets.
The patterns behind Peter’s career longevity.
Peter is 71 and enjoys working full-time and for a company. When his wife introduced us, I won’t deny that I was flabbergasted and very curious.
What is ultra special about him is that he relocated to the UK from Australia aged 65 (Imagine that!?). He found employment with little trouble, in an industry he’d never worked in before.
They relocated, initially, to experience a mature gap-year exploring Europe. They hoped to enjoy the arts, theatres and galleries that London has to offer. He kindly hopped on a call with me to discuss the patterns behind his career longevity.
Making industry-match less important than skills-match.
Peter found that cross-industry movement is very possible.
“It’s possible providing the skills you have are what they need and you can sell how your skills can fit any industry idiosyncrasies.”
Improving your success rate in job applications.
Peter experienced a very high strike-rate going from applications to interviews. He only chose to apply for jobs where the required skill-set matched his and he was sure to make this match very clear.
Being open to flexible working to get your foot in the door.
Checking out a new industry to see if it was right for him was important for Peter. Initially was very open to working on a temporary basis. He believes that proximity matters.
“If the fit is right for both parties, it’s then very likely that you’ll get chosen for the longer-term roles.”
Proving you can make the difference that they want to make.
“In a competitive market, you’re going to have to show that you can do what is required in spades. No-one will consider training you, but they will often help you develop once you are in the door.”
Defining success personally and showing vitality.
Peter and his wife agreed on their understanding of what “success” looks like and how work could contribute to that success in your overall life-plan.
“My wife and I are passionate about theatre, art galleries and museums so relocating to London at 65 was thrilling. This might have come across at interviews. This keeps me feeling vital.”
Career storytelling.
Make sure you can tell the story of transferable skills convincingly. This is key to being successful at interviews, whether you want to move companies or industries, or not.
Being positive with people, past and present.
“I’ve enjoyed so many great working relationships throughout my career, working in such different work environments. People are the key.
I continue to meet and work with great people. Age doesn’t seem to be a barrier - or as much of a barrier as it was in Australia. Here, as long as you have the skills and can convince others, age doesn’t appear to get in the way.”
Peter has a rough idea that he’d like to work full-time until he’s 75 and can’t see any barriers to doing so in the London Market
Graham, 63, continues to work full-time. Here he offers the key insights that have helped sustain his career longevity and enjoyment.
The Patterns behind Graham’s career longevity.
63 year old Graham continues to work full-time. He spent his career working in retail, fashion, wine and then more recently branched out into manufacturing and engineering. I was delighted when he agreed to jump on a call with me to discuss his career longevity.
Investing energy building career momentum.
Graham is very clear on what needs to happen if you want to keep working in your 60s and beyond.
“If you want career longevity, make sure you invest time and energy into creating your own personal career momentum - growing, personally developing and learning new things.”
Engaging in simple career storytelling.
Graham says you can’t underestimate the power of telling your career story in an engaging way to the individuals in front of you. That way they clearly understand what you have to offer.
“I have a special set of skills in retail, fashion, wine and more recently manufacturing and engineering. But I’ve used the same skills around shaping and developing people and strategy in all of them.”
Not relying on head-hunters.
Even if you’ve been on the top of key head-hunters in your industry for a long time, don’t expect to remain there forever. Your personal network is very important in your career longevity.
Networking - old and new.
“Don’t forget people. There is huge value in relationships. I’ve worked with some amazing people and I keep in contact. I still mentor individuals from a long time ago. Developing your network with new people, from new industries, is also vital.”
Being prepared for the unexpected.
Graham’s been made redundant in several roles throughout his career. All but one were completely expected as a result of changes he was instrumental in designing.
“But not all changes are designed, some are personality led. It’s good to be prepared - financially, practically and emotionally.”
Having grown-up conversations when discussing potential roles.
Graham had a refreshingly valuable approach to interviewing which could have saved me thousands of hours in my previous head-hunting career had I known.
“When investigating if a role is a good fit for you, if some parts are more suited to your career ago rather than your more recent experience, have that conversation.
The maturity and experience is either wanted or not. It’s valuable - either to stop wasting each other’s time, or to reshape the role.”
John, 74, continues to work full-time. Here he lets me into some of the behaviours and attitudes that have allowed him to enjoy working into his seventies.
The patterns behind John’s career longevity.
John spent 14 years in the army before moving into the commercial world - broadly in the spheres of Risk and Security. He has operated in variety of senior roles including MD and Divisional lead, as well as functional leadership roles.
When we met for coffee over zoom, we discussed the patterns behind his career longevity. Still working at 74 years old, I had to find out his secrets.
Proactively carrying your suitcase to build relationships on trust.
John is a huge fan of building relationships face-to-face. He attributes much of his success to creating and maintaining deep and long-lasting relationships - with trust sewn in.
Throughout his career he travelled, frequently spending short bursts of time with key people. This would often include dinners where they shared personal updates on family and wider life. He was sure to mention their last job or next job hopes and woes within these discussions.
“Of the CEOs I’ve worked with over the last twenty years, I remain good friends and in close contact with all bar one. ”
Never asking for a meeting that is longer than 15 minutes.
When dealing with senior executives, John understood the pressure they were under. He always asked for very short meetings, with the maximum length of 15 minutes. With certain CEOs, he only requested a 5 minute meeting, often arranging this via their PA.
He’d also critically prepare for those meetings in advance. Deciding what he needed from the meeting, and how to succinctly communicate the anticipated benefits to the individual kept the meetings within the allotted timeframe.
Never annually appraising those you manage.
John talked in detail about how he perceived his leadership roles as developmental roles. Everyone knew what was expected of them and understood their goals. They knew what necessary contribution they had to make to achieve those goals.
“I communicate when they do well and when they fall short. Everyone makes mistakes, but they need to learn from them.
If I’ve communicated our goals, and they understand what is expected from them and they learn from their mistakes quickly, the relationship is a win-win. No-one who works with me needs an annual appraisal to know how they are doing.”
Never saying “no”.
There were very specific situations throughout John’s career where he cultivated a reputation contrary to the general naysaying reputation of many in his industry.
“In the world of risk and security, we have a reputation for saying “no” all the time. I created a persona of never saying “no”, meaning I was always at the table in the early stages of idea generation or change planning. I became known for finding ways to do what business leaders wanted.”
Never going on holiday for three weeks and missing a board meeting.
One of John’s businesses, when he was Managing Director, was reshaped while he was on a long break. Since he wasn’t there, he couldn’t stop the changes he didn’t agree with.
Choosing good people and trusting them to do good work.
John believes that trust has played a key role in his success throughout his entire career.
“I had people working from home for me twenty years ago when almost no-one was trusted to do so. I never cared what they did on a Wednesday afternoon at 2pm, as long as the work was done…and if I needed them to be in Manilla on Thursday afternoon, they would be there.”
Embracing ideas from younger people to make work more fun.
Throughout his career, John has worked alongside lots of younger people who came up with new and brilliant ideas.
“"I’ve had so much fun, especially working with younger, brighter people who know their world.
I’ve had mega-fun working with all sorts of people at the cutting edge of new technology, and with inventive, clever, young minds who see different possibilities.
By embracing these younger generations, I got to contribute solving problems that we didn’t even know existed, before we discovered them. It’s been so much fun.”
Welcoming challenges from people who are a third of your age.
John views challenges from younger people, who know their field, as necessary and welcomes them.
He sometimes views grey hairs as dangerous, as some people in the room will assume that their experience means they are right.
In his experience, we get more from any situation where younger generations challenge our ideas. They have a different perspective, different skills and different ideas. Accepting their challenges allows a more collaborative working environment, where everyone has equal value.
Communicating in ways that boards can understand.
One of John’s superpowers (my language not his), is that he can interrogate technical specialists, learn by asking questions, and then communicate the value, risk or opportunities in ways that senior leaders can understand and evaluate.
“I’ve had no technical training but throughout my career.
I’ve learned new stuff by asking questions and working hard at understanding enough, to then communicate it to others, in ways that help their decision-making.”
Making friends at work.
“I remain friends with individuals that I’ve worked with decades ago, as well as those I’ve developed close relationships with more recently.
If you respect, like and trust those that you’ve worked hard with, the lines between work and life become blurred.“
Philippa, who is almost 70, has spend half a century in the healthcare industry. She shares her secrets below.
The patterns behind Philippa’s career longevity.
Philippa, turns 70 in a couple of months and has been working in healthcare for almost 50 years. She kindly jumped on a call with me to share some of the patterns she felt have contributed to her career enjoyment and longevity.
Always finding time for self-development - even if you pay for it yourself.
"I'm driven to be interested in new things. It's just the way I'm made. I cannot stop learning new things. I do this in life (MBA, NLP Master Practitioner, Dementia coach, MSc Neuroscience) and in work. I feel like I've got this inner drive to learn more.”
Networking - my way.
"I've had the wonderful pleasure of meeting and working with fascinating people throughout my entire career - that's what I mean by networking."
Saying ‘Yes’ often.
Philippa felt that this practise has stood her in good stead throughout her career - whether it related to new roles, project roles, moves into different parts of the industry, unusual opportunities that weren't always popular or saying yes to learning new skills.
Personalising success - forgetting about linear, upward movement.
"Being promoted hasn't been a driving force in my career longevity. I
've taken many sideways moves and one memorable downwards move because it fed my need for stimulation. The last thing I wanted was to get stuck at a particular level if my role wasn't interesting enough to satisfy me."
Finding diversity in role and focus - even if it’s within one industry.
"For almost 50 years I've known one industry, but I've seen it from every possible angle. I developed a love for patients, and for helping them. I’ve found ways to do that in so many different roles, in different locations, in different divisions."
The giving and receiving of flexibility.
"I spent years travelling all over UK and Europe for work, which I loved. When my mother was diagnosed with Alzheimer’s some 6 years ago, I was able to work part-time whilst also being her primary carer. The company created a secondment role which I was later able to return to full-time, by which time it had become a permanent and very interesting role.
I've both offered and received a great deal of flexibility throughout my career.
Mentoring relationships.
Mentoring and having mentors has played a big role in Philippa's career success and longevity.
"I've had many great mentors over the course of my career. I still talk to them all and have even become friends with many of them."
Agreeing with the strategies and principles of a company.
Philippa has found that long-term benefits are possible when her personal values are aligned with the company’s principles and strategy.
Paying for your own self-development.
Throughout her career, Philippa regularly chose to pay for her own learning.
“I have a personal inner drive to keep learning. One mentor in particular recognised this and suggested opportunities, enabling funding for one of my coaching courses.”
Volunteering for organisations you believe in.
Philippa has, and continues, to volunteer for organisations that chime with her own values and interests. She gets a great deal of satisfaction from doing so.
Different is good.
"I've not stayed in the same lane for long. I've offered, or been invited to move into different environments, work at different levels and experience different people, from all walks of life.
Even though I've been in the same industry for half a century, it's felt like multiple fascinating learning journeys."
Neal, 66, describes himself as “busier than ever.” He kindly shared his views on career longevity and the what has allowed him to continue loving his work in all sorts of economic situations.
The patterns behind Neal’s career longevity.
Neal, 66, feels that his deep experience in different types of transformation, is highly sought-after and valued…especially in today’s market. He spoke to me about the patterns behind his career enjoyment and longevity.
Being a little different.
“I’m a New Yorker in UK, and that gets me noticed. It’s an icebreaker and a connector, a reason for people to remember me.
Being different in personal style, background, and skillset has helped me enormously over the course of my career.”
Being vocal.
“I have a big personality and strong opinions founded in sound technical skills. I
’m always the guy who is talking, engaging, asking questions and discussing options. If companies want someone who stays in the background, they don’t choose me.”
Networking - creating relationships that last.
“I’ve invested time and energy in getting to know people throughout my career. I go to events. I attend get-togethers. I enjoy mingling, meeting new people and connecting.
When I was new in UK, I got out and about immediately, meeting hundreds of recruiters. I’m not the kind of person who waits for the phone to ring.
Once I secured my first role, people started to call me. That’s how it’s been ever since then.”
Working with younger generations.
According to Neal, most of his co-workers are aged 30 and below – more than half his age.
“I’m always available to answer questions, discuss problems and offer advice. I’ve always mentored young accountants coming up through the ranks.
I really enjoy it and they seem to get value from the interactions.”
Extending your shelf life by discovering your niche.
“Often in your 30s and 40s you have to do work that you don’t love. Once you discover your niche, it can be transformative.
A niche can either involve certain skills and talents that you enjoy…certain environments that float your boat…or both. For me, 15 years ago, I got involved with transformational work and I’ve looked back.”
Keeping engaged and challenged.
“Once you know the specific skills and talents you enjoy using, there are so many diverse problems that you can then point them at.
This gives a career the potential to have lots of different and interesting tentacles.”
Neal says that these diverse problems in diverse environments keep him engaged and challenged. Even though he doesn’t have to work, he says he can’t imagine stopping!
Lynda, 63, has worked in the healthcare industry for over half of her life. She recently shared some of the secrets behind her career success and longevity.
The patterns behind Lynda’s career longevity.
63-year-old Lynda has worked in the healthcare industry for almost 30 years. She kindly agreed to speak to me about the patterns she feels have contributed to her career enjoyment and longevity.
Making sure you can demonstrate your value to the business.
"It's critical that you represent a good investment – no matter what your remuneration package. I believe in a fair day's work for a fair day's pay. I like to work hard, making valuable contributions - this ensures that I remain a valuable investment.”
Avoiding being boxed in.
Lynda felt that, throughout her career, saying "yes" to new ideas, roles, and projects has stood her in good stead.
"My areas of specialism are broad - people, ideas and creativity. I joined the company when it was an entrepreneurial venture. With just a handful of people, we needed team members who could turn their hand to anything and everything. I enjoy that and continue to do that in my daily work."
Getting on top of technology.
Lynda feels it's imperative to be ahead of the curve - with all sorts of new technology, and hints at the dangers of not doing so.
"If you appear behind the curve, you can give others the chance to judge you. You’ll be living up to an unhelpful stereotype…that mature workers are technophobes."
Going broad when learning.
Lynda emphasises the imporatance of continual learning about your industry, other companies in your industry, wider growing trends and influences of political changes and so on.
“Keeping up to date with learning new things has been a critical pattern that allows me to walk into a meeting on most topics and make a valuable contribution.”
Helping others - including mature workers.
Empathy and championing individuals appears to be intrinsic to Lynda's modus operandi.
"I've always championed career enhancement for more mature workers. For example, negotiating opportunities for them to learn new things, moving them into different arenas, forming new teams and joining new projects."
Insisting on training.
Lynda feels company-funded investment in training is very important.
"You can learn lots by yourself. Companies should also be offering quality training if they’re interested in developing you, and the company, in the long-term. If your company doesn't offer it, ask for it.”
Meaningful work.
Lynda fully intends to continue working until she wants to stop.
"I think it's important that companies offer people meaningful working opportunities until the individual chooses to stop working. We've had several members of staff work until close to 70 years old. We've also employed new staff in their 60s. It's about getting the right people."
Networking in your own style
Lynda has used this to her advantage - stressing the importance of actually caring about those in her networking circle.
"I've been on various committees and project teams across the business, as well as across the industry in related arenas. I've always enjoyed meeting new people. I feel like I'm a good listener - I care about what I do and who I do it with. That's what networking means to me."
Knowing yourself enough to decide what you don’t want.
"Whilst I've held senior positions within the business, I've never wanted to be on the board. It wouldn't suit me. My skills lie in relation building, making business and people connections and helping things happen in a practical way.
Budgets, long term strategies, or running reports and endless KPI’s, all absolutely essential in running a successful business, however for me my purpose lies in being able to make a difference ‘day to day”"
Leaving ego out of the career equation.
Lynda constantly strives for increased improvement…both her own, and others.
"I operate less from the perspective of my ego, and more from my wish to do the best I can for myself and others."
Feeling grateful and appreciated.
Whilst looking back and discussing this, it was clear to see Lynda’s genuine fondness for all of the teams she’s been a part of.
“I've had the pleasure of working within very dynamic teams, having a purpose, feeling appreciated and valued. I've also experienced great kindness and thoughtfulness in my workplace. These have undoubtedly contributed to my career enjoyment and longevity.”
Overall conclusions and shared wisdom.
It’s much too early in my research to decide what the common factors are.
So I offer no conclusions at this point.
Instead, I excitedly look forward to having lots more conversations with individuals like these. Ones who have designed their work in ways that they find satisfying and enjoyable - and are getting paid well to do this full-time in their 60s and beyond.
WATCH THIS SPACE…
In the meantime, if you liked this article, you might also like these:
Two years ago, I thought I’d finally cracked it [my career happiness]. Joanne’s story.
13 things I’m glad I did after quitting my job without a plan.
Change can be hard. I design programmes to make it easier.
The Fierce Emporium is where professionals go to design their next decade of their work to be MUCH more enjoyable than their last.
